Slot Machine User Forumns

Great chapter Wiz!	2 votes (28.57%)
Thanks for ruining more good plays, Wiz.	No votes (0%)
I'm a slot vulture.	4 votes (57.14%)
I am the best blackjack player in Vegas.	No votes (0%)
I feel good about 7-1-4 in the daily pick 3.	No votes (0%)
I have a better example than Green Stamps.	No votes (0%)
I can confirm that about AGS slots.	No votes (0%)
When are you going to finish that Planet 13 review	No votes (0%)
JB hasn't posted for a while.	2 votes (28.57%)
I hate Christmas decorations before Thanksgiving.	1 vote (14.28%)

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Wizard
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I've broached on this in other threads, but I think it deserves its own thread. So, I'm rewriting my book, Gambling 102. Not just an update, but a complete rewrite. I am giving owners of the first edition a reason to buy the new one.
In my slot machine chapter I have a section on advantage plays in slots. These are things I don't actually do, so am going off of things I've heard here and there. That said, I welcome the AP's on the forum to give their comments, for which I'll be thankful for.

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• Some slot machines have 'must hit by' jackpots. For example, a jackpot that must hit by $500. If you play these games only when they are very close to the maximum jackpot, the odds should be in your favor. However, some makers gaff their machines to usually hit when near the maximum value, so don't be tempted to play at game where the jackpot is 97% of the way to the top, when it may be programmed to rarely hit until it reaches 99%. For example, AGS machines with a 'must hit by $5,000 jackpot' seem to rarely hit below $4,990*.
  * Editorial note: I will endeavor to confirm this shortly.
• Some machines guarantee a bonus when some kind of meter is full. Green Stamps is a good, although dated, example. In that game, the player earns green stamps as he plays. When 1,200 stamps are accumulated, he wins five free games. He can hoard books for up to five bonuses. If a player leaves with stamps in his books, then they remain on the machine for the next player. So, it is possible to find machines with over 1,200 stamps, ready to pay out a free bonus. Even if the stamps in the first book are close enough to 1,200, the odds would swing to the player's favor. There are other more modern games that are based on the same principle. However, I'm sworn to secrecy on which specific games, sorry.
• Skill based slots also offer a possible advantage for 'skilled' players. These games have a skill-based bonus. The prize pools available in these bonuses will depend in part on the skill of the previous players who played. If they didn't do well at the bonus, it leaves more in the bonus bank for you to win. There should be some sort of meter on the game showing the maximum win and what you have to do to get it. In my limited experience, I find the skill level required in these games to be pretty low, so there usually isn't enough money in the bonus bank to be worth playing. However, with a lot of patience and time, there are ripe games to be found.
• In any form of gambling, comps can be a function of play and/or how much you lose. There are various ways of tricking casinos into thinking you've lost more than you really did, some of which could be considered cheating, at least ethically, depending on the reason and method. With slots, if you know you are near a point where a bonus is triggered, because some meter is nearly full, then pull your player card out until you trigger and play the bonus. This way, you'll be playing the bonus off the radar and it will look to the marketing department that you lost more or won less than you really did.

why not do a chapter on pumping oxygen into the casinos..
I've heard that here and there also.
Its either authoritative or its not.

I've been saying for years that this is an urban legend. However, I had a cab driver after the Cher concert on Friday that put me to shame with Vegas trivia. This Vegas old-timer knew everything. Anyway, he swore casinos used to pump oxygen. He seemed to indicate that had something to do with how fast the MGM fire spread. Then again, Vegas cab drivers are probably not the best source to quote.

I've been saying for years that this is an urban legend.

Of course it is nonsense and always was nonsense.
My point was that your slot machine chapter should be based on
some sort of proof, facts, odds, or something other than you've heard
that meter slows down.

My point was that your slot machine chapter should be based on
some sort of proof, facts, odds, or something other than you've heard
that meter slows down.

I mean to confirm the comment about AGS 'must hit by' jackpots. Thus the editorial note.

why not do a chapter on pumping oxygen into the casinos..
I've heard that here and there also.
Its either authoritative or its not.

I had a friend who stayed up all night in Indian casinos when she didn't have the money to rent a room. She showed me some oxygen vents on the floor..where she would stand to help stay awake.
I don't know about Vegas.

I had a friend who stayed up all night in Indian casinos when she didn't have the money to rent a room. She showed me some oxygen vents on the floor..where she would stand to help stay awake.
I don't know about Vegas.

Lol. What makes them oxygen vents as compared to air vents. Many new casinos have air vents all over the floor to blow smoke up and away.
ZCore13

Lol. What makes them oxygen vents as compared to air vents. Many new casinos have air vents all over the floor to blow smoke up and away.
ZCore13

Of course there is oxygen coming from those vents. Also nitrogen and some other stuff. A little bit of pocket lint and some tobacco residue.

What's skill based slots, any examples?
If you download the free play, pull the card out, then play through the free play, does it trick the marketing department?

Nothing changes unless you go past the free play. Then you don't earn any points. It makes no sense to do that.

• Page 1 of 2

Hi, Owen, and welcome to the forum!
I'm not a math guy, but I'll try to give you a short version, and let others correct it if necessary.
The 95% example you gave is a theoretical amount that the casino should receive over the long run; for every $100 run through the machine, the casino expects to keep $5 on average. The slot is programmed to have winning and losing spins come up randomly, but each a certain amount of times that will be realized over many, many spins.
Some people will lose the whole $100 without a win; some people will win $100 or more right away and walk away. Other people will keep playing when they win, maybe quit even again, maybe continue until they lose, maybe keep winning and get up with more than they put in.
It all is expected to average out to $5 lost per $100 spent. But almost no individual player will have that exact experience. I think your understanding of it is pretty close to that, based on what you wrote, but I hope that my explanation helps.
FWIW, Casinos in the US (and perhaps in Peru) use the amount a gambler puts through a machine (how much money they 'expose') multiplied by the House Edge (rough description of this formula), to decide how valuable that customer has been to them; whether the customer won or lost, their value to the casino is based on that theoretical amount, and they will offer complimentary cash, rooms, and prizes that will draw those customers to return.

if one day 1,000 people go to a casino with $100 and every one play a few hours of slot machines with a 95% RTP: 1000 x 100 = $100,000, turning a theoretical 5% of profit for the casino: $5,000, it this correct?

Yes, if and only if they each play $100 of spins and leave.
Most people do not do this. Most people playing on $100 actually play $1200 or more worth of games, as they play through their winnings as well as their initial bankroll.
Every $1 spin on a slot machine has the same 5 cent theoretical profit for the casino, assuming your 95% RTP.
I would expect if 1000 people with $100 each came in that they would play about 1,000,000 $1 spins (or equivalent), and house profit would be about $50,000.
If each spin took a slow 10 seconds, that would mean each player would play about 2 hours 45 minutes. On a more realistic 6 seconds per spin, that's a little longer than an hour and a half. Both of these numbers are well within what I've seen as possible.
If the place is 60% full for 14 hours, this is doable on about 250 machines.
I have no idea if this covers rent on the slot machines and TITO units.

Hi!
Thank you! I've read this forum for many years. I really appreciate your response. I was checking some oficial documents from the local government regarding the financial statistics from the local casino and here is some of the info from the last month (Approximately. I'm using example numbers):
Visitors per month: 9,000
Average spend per visitor: $50
Total wagered on slot machines: $4,950,000
Real monthly RTP: 95%
So, as you can see, people spent approximately $450,000 in the month, but wagered $4,950,000. That's eleven times the total spend. I don't know if I'm not understanding correctly the document or there is a kind of error. What does that mean? That the profit of the casino it's the 8% of the total wagered? ($247,500) Or it's just the 8% of the total spend? ($36,000)

Well, those are a bit different, perhaps made more complicated by translation from Spanish to English.
If I'm interpreting based on how it's done here:
$4,950,000 is called the 'drop', or how much is 'exposed' by all the gamblers together by making wagers.
95% RTP is what was returned to players from that drop, or $4,702,500. So the 'win' or 'hold' on the machines was $247,500, the other 5%.
The 9000*$50 per person (assuming this is only what they directly bet, not the amount they spent on their entire visit, like the economic impact including bar profits, gift shop, whatever), reflects the real impact of the HE on repeated exposure of your money to it. The house edge takes a cut at your money every time you cycle it, not just the first $100 you expose. And that adds up. So I would say, the house was able to keep (gross) 55% of the money made available to them during that month (247,500/450,000), while that base amount (450,000) was exposed to them approximately 11 times per $100 available.
I could, as always, be wrong. But I don't think those numbers are unrealistic.

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So it's normal that slot machine players wager 10 times their initial bankroll?

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Some more, some less, but I think this is a reasonable approximation for many players. This matches what I generally observe for 'normal' players.
Compulsives and AP's are different, but averaging them together might come out around the same.

So it's normal that slot machine players wager 10 times their initial bankroll? And the real profit of the casino it's a % of the total wager? This casino have a large screen which holds all the statics from the previous day. Example:
Money played: $1,300,000
Money returned: $1,210,000
Commission: $90,000
So the $1,300,000 isn't necessary what people put on the machine. I would expect that people only put $130,000 or less. So if the casino received $130,000 in cash and returned $90,000, the real return it's near 30%? (!)

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The $1,300,000 is exactly what people put in the machine. Your question is (I think), where did that money come from? It could 100% be straight out of people's pockets, it could be them cycling the same money 10 times, 20 times, 30 times on average. That answer is the RTP. If everybody just plain lost, and kept feeding new money into the slots anyway, the RTP would be 0%. In your example above, the RTP is 93.077%.
So the casino made $90,000 that day. Other days, it could be a negative number, if the money returned was larger than the money played. But for the real impact on the players, you'd have to know how many came in (the numbers you listed before) and their average or actual losses. I'm sure the casino tracks those, but what they really want to know is how much of the money that came in people's pockets stayed in their casino. They could've broken everybody and realized 100% of what came in. Maybe it was 2%. In your previous example, it was 55%. I'm sure those metrics matter to them in determining what games to keep offering, what clients to concentrate on making into repeat customers, whether their staffing is appropriate (not leaving people with money looking for games, but also not a lot of paid staff standing at dead games). But the bottom line is they made 90K that day, or almost 7% of the drop. That's actually a little low, I think; again, I could be wrong.

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